AYESHA RASCOE, HOST:
Leave the Kurds alone, we are not guns for hire. Those were the words of Iraq's first lady, herself a Kurd. Her statement came after reports that Iranian Kurdish groups were considering deploying ground forces inside Iran as part of the U.S.-Israeli war on the country. The U.S. has a long history of working with Kurdish militias in the region, but it's a complicated relationship. Wladimir van Wilgenburg is a reporter and analyst on Kurdish affairs. He joins us now from Erbil and northern Iraq. Thank you so much for joining us.
WLADIMIR VAN WILGENBURG: You're welcome.
RASCOE: So can you start by giving us a brief overview of Kurds in the Middle East?
VAN WILGENBURG: Well, I mean, there are Kurds - millions of Kurds spread over Iran, Iraq, Syria and Turkey, and they don't have an independent state. But here in Iraq, where I am now, there's a Kurdistan regional government, so they have their own autonomous region. And also in Syria, they have some form of decentralization, but not as here. And in Iran, the Kurds want something similar as here in Iraq.
RASCOE: Well, these Kurdish militias from Iran, they are in northern Iraq. What do we know about these groups?
VAN WILGENBURG: Well, there's a large number of groups. Recently, six of them, they formed an alliance. They were basically exiled to Iraqi Kurdistan after the Islamic Revolution. And they have been based here for so many years, and they want to actually go back to their own country. So they feel that this is the opportunity to go because now Iran doesn't have a very good relationship with its neighbors, and it's weakened so much, and also the supreme leader has been killed. So they hope that they could get, like, U.S. support to basically change something and go back to the areas they are from.
RASCOE: Well, I mean, how would that work? 'Cause it's been widely reported that these militias, possibly with - you know, armed by the U.S., support from the U.S. - that they're going to fight against the Iranian regime. Like, how would that work? Do you think that's likely?
VAN WILGENBURG: Well, there were a lot of reports about that, that it was likely, and even President Trump himself said that he wouldn't mind Iranian Kurds to fight the Islamic republic. So there's a big chance that it will happen, but at the same time, there's also a bit of pushback because as you mentioned, the first lady of Iraq - she said that we don't want Kurds to be used. And also the Kurdish government here, they are a bit worried that if, for instance, those Iranian Kurdish groups move from their territory, that there might be a response from Iran because we already see every day there's attacks and drone strikes, missiles, et cetera. So they're a bit worried about that, so we have to first see if it will happen or not because it really is depending on the decision of Trump and the Trump administration what they will do here in Iran.
RASCOE: If they were to fight in Iran, what are their chances of success?
VAN WILGENBURG: I think they can be successful because the areas they are from, they are like a Kurdish majority. And a lot of the Iranian IRGC forces there, the Iranian security forces there, they are not native to the area. If they don't have air support, I think it's going to be difficult for them to defeat the Iranian forces that are there. But if they have air support - and for instance, you saw that also in Syria, that the Syrian Kurds, with support of coalition forces, easily defeated ISIS - this sort of model can be repeated with the Iranian Kurds, that they will have, like, for instance, local U.S. operators on the ground. But the question then will be, what will happen with the rest of Iran? - because the Kurds will not march on Tehran. They will only go to the Kurdish areas.
RASCOE: How do the Kurds view their relationship with the U.S.? - 'cause you mentioned Syria. Isn't there concern that the U.S. basically use the Kurds and then abandon them?
VAN WILGENBURG: Yeah. There's basically this concern that that could happen because that happened in Syria, that after they defeated ISIS, then later, the U.S. decided to work with the new Syrian government after the fall of the dictatorship in Syria. So they're worried about that, that they could be abandoned because U.S. officials in the past in Syria have always said that it was a transactional relationship. And Iranian Kurds, they don't want to end up as a transactional relationship. They want to have a strategic relationship. They want to have some form of political recognition. They want to have a federal Iran and democracy. So that's their main goal, and they don't want just to be cannon fodder for the U.S. They want to also get something out of it, not that when the battle is finished and there's a new government in Tehran, then Iranian forces move in and destroy Kurdish autonomy. So they want to get something out of this.
RASCOE: That's Wladimir van Wilgenburg, a reporter and analyst on Kurdish affairs. Thank you so much for joining us.
VAN WILGENBURG: You're welcome.
RASCOE: We should note that President Trump on Saturday said he had ruled out having Iraqi Kurds join the war, adding that the war was complicated enough. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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